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Its definitely hard mode on here as I’m trying to frame flip them off the sugar daddy vibe. What’s the best way to respond to this? She’s trying to lead with a number close and I’m sure she’ll talk about allowances which I’ll never agree to. How do you get her to meet up without any expectations that I would sugar them?
I'm running into an interesting situation. I'm getting plenty of matches on Tinder and have girls in most cases responding to me at inconvenient times, responding to my opener much later than I would expect them to, or not continuing the convo after I attempt to bait an emotional reaction out of them. Even re-openers haven't given me much success recently. Compared this to earlier this year/last year the engagement seems to have dropped off. I've only been getting dates on weekdays where pulling is harder because it's a work night. I still manage to pull in half of those situations. Do you think this is an issue with the attention economy as we're heading into summer (friends, them getting invited to things, other matches, using the apps for validation) or just something I can improve on? If so, what's the answer, more re-openers/volume?
I want a build a list of questions I can have in the back of my head if I ever run out of material to keep the momentum of the date smooth. What are some ideal questions you ask that are engaging and escalate to a more sexual frame more easily? Here's a few I have: What's the worst date you've ever been on? What's dating like in X city? What do you look for in a guy?
Back in September I started getting dates and found myself in a harder position to do what the guide says about getting women over to my place. I wrote my fail reports here: https://forums.playingfire.com/posts/overcoming-bad-logistics https://forums.playingfire.com/posts/overcoming-bad-logistics-pt2-mindset-presence My situation was I made some life choices before starting my dating life which added needless difficulty that I didn't realize, until I actually got an opportunity to close. I ended up buying a house out of the city center as I expected my life to go in a different direction before I knew any of this stuff. This put me in a position where I had to play in a disadvantageous position that I couldn't back out of. In the past few months, I finally learned a system that works even with the logistics issue I had. As of now I've had 5 consecutive lays with different women. Here's how I did it: My first successful encounter was with a woman who was traveling to the states for the weekend and had a hotel room in manhattan. There was no possibility I had of ever bringing her 30 minutes out of where most of the nightlife is, so I primarily stuck to meeting her at a bar near her hotel and joining her in some rave event she already had tickets for and wanted to go to. I wasn't able to just chat with her and pull right away so spending the time with her even when she was already comfortable with me was enough for her to invite me up to her hotel, I was with her till 5 in the morning when it happened so we partied most of the night. What I learned here was this is a scenario where you need to dig enough info to have a proper plan in place. I was in this same scenario months ago which failed spectacularly. Before agreeing to go out you need to know the entire situation. If she's staying in a hotel, is she with roommates or all alone? Does she have plans after meeting with you? If so can you lead that situation? This is a lot of time and work than the kind of reports you see but it was well worth it when you can't pull to your place. I call this Shitty Logistics Plan C, it's not the best but if you get her comfortable enough she will invite you provided all the above conditions are met. My second successful encounter happened with a woman who was in brooklyn, she had her own place and after vibing with her in the bar for about an hour we took an uber to her place. I initially suggested going to my place for more drinks since it's still early out on a weeknight. She suggested her place and it was straightfoward from there. What I've learned from this experience was leaving the option open to go to either place as long as it's a reasonable distance can lead to an invite to her place, even if it's a work night. I prefer their place on a weeknight because I notice hesitancy when they have work in the morning and they don't want to travel far out to start their day. My third successful encounter was one where I finally closed at my place. This is where I figured out the proper conditions for the both of us that made her willing to follow through. I matched with a woman who lived in manhattan, was willing to come to a crowded brooklyn bar and just had a good vibe with her for about two hours. This was a reasonable distance for her on a friday night since it only would take her 15 min to get to that bar. When asked where I live, I usually tell them I live 10 min right above the neighborhood where the bar is. This has been really effective so far as compared to telling them my exact neighborhood I'm in, and is truthful because I can uber within that timeframe. I asked her to come to my place so we can have hang without so many people around and drink/netflix. She agreed, and in the morning took an uber home and even told me she was surprised how far she was out from home lol. My lesson here is the best strategy I have to close at my place is to find a location that is within that reasonable distance between the two of us, and as long as I mention that my place is only 10 min out (even via uber), it is persuasive enough that she's cool with it. My fourth and fifth encounters were repeats of the second and third. All I did was follow the same formula: Screen for a woman near the distance of the bar scene closest to me. Prefer ones that live near there, some will just not leave manhattan, others are willing to meet in the middle. Does she live alone? Base your logistics on this answer. Meet her at the spot (try to get there before her and see if you can get more advantageous seating where the two of you can be really close side by side), give her a hug the moment you see her When agreeing to get the uber, just have the app ready to go if you're going to your place. Just fetch it when both of you agree, go to the bathroom and it will be there waiting for you. The less time spent will make it feel very quick for the both of you, especially if you're in a freezing cold city like me. Lastly, properly understand frame. Exhibit the behaviors they find attractive. Encourage conversations that interest them (talking about them is a very easy subject you can delve hours into). Engage in non-verbal escalations with these conversations that help push the needle forward. Shoulder touching -> Arm touching -> Knee touching -> at some point after this you can probably go for the waist, or make out, or just pull depending on how you read it. I didn't focus much on this post but I definitely recommend that this is the perquisite before solving any other logistical problems. Frame is what gets you in the door and the logistics will be more lenient for you once you get through. All in all I have to say this has been successful system. Since doing so I have never experienced Last Minute Resistance, Concerns, Rejections to escalate, or even a date that did not lead to sleeping with them. Thanks Alex, I'm looking forward to the rest of the year especially as we head into warmer temperature. 👍
I've been figuring out how to close with my current conditions (not in city center, no car, large living distance between me and a girl), My current strategy is to screen for girls who live alone, and are receptive to suggestive flirty messages. I ended up in a situation where I was able to frame the messaging to be more flirty/sexual instead of the formal date approach I used to do before this content. We decided to meet at a bar by her place (she lives alone) given my shitty logistics make having a girl meet me impossible. It's not in the guide, but if it were it would be called Shitty Logistics Plan C. When I got to the bar, she made out with me at first sight and I was taken aback because girls I date never do this, and most advice suggest to slowly escalate from eyes -> shoulders -> knees -> others, etc. I didn't recalibrate properly and floundered through most of the interaction while we were there. She led the conversation, bought the drinks, shit tested me a lot, noticed I was physically escalating/deescalating in confusion, and called me out on several occasions. We made out a bunch but there could have been more. By not adapting and continuing to follow a formula that wasn't right for the situation, I was thoroughly trounced by her control of the meet. Here's what I've learned so far: Framing during the texting is absolutely everything. It's what led to the meet being like this without realizing. Once the frame has been established, understand and stay there. If you've escalated all the way in the text, then do not go into date mode when you meet her. By going to her area, you put yourself at a disadvantage because chances are she's setting everything up and it puts you in less control What you offer women both young and old is no matter how much more experience they have, is control. They can have all experience in the world, but they still have the same desires. In short, I definitely need more experience keeping track/gaining control of leading under these logistics, and I'm terrible at reading non-verbal cues. What else can help this type of situation?
Hey, I'm looking for some help on this current issue I'm working on. I live in NYC and can get a decent stream of matches. However, I do not live within the city center (Manhattan/Brooklyn), I don't have a car, and the women I meet are not keen on meeting up where I live considering the following: They live within the city center How far it is from where they are It being the opposite direction from all of the good parts of the city This is causing me to set up good dates that are awful logistically and having that be the best case scenario. In one recent example I wasn't able to get a woman I met out of Manhattan, so I resorted to meeting around her. Went very well, I took her to a spot that let her open up and be comfortable with me. While she was interested, she didn't feel like traveling out that far to get to my place. I was still faced with the other issue she had roommates so that was a no go for her. I'm fairly certain I'm doing something wrong here, there's absolutely people in this city who do it all the time, regardless of logistics. To rethink my strategy, there's several things I could think of doing to address this: Move to the city center (obviously, but not as feasible to do as other solutions) Screen for women willing to travel further or screen for women closer to me Build more investment, perhaps I'm not doing that enough Get better at stating my intentions Find a place to meet up that's just outside of the borough but quick enough to get an uber ride Any suggestions? Thanks.
