Hey @avilench . can you explain what's wrong with his photos? Just for our own learning purposes.

He looks like a handsome dude. My guess is that the photos with him looking away and smiling look to "samey" and there's nothing of him doing something cool. Plus he has two photos with the coffee cup.

Can you explain what this and what it does? Most of the pics look like digital paintings, like a "paintbrush" filter is on them. Idk if that will make girls think twice.

I had a professional take my pics and I'd say they're decent enough.

I think you guys have misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express myself correctly. Im not some give-up doomer. I'm just pointing out why you see many of them in the community and why many give up and withdraw. I was close to doing that myself. I agree with what you guys are saying and if you reread my post you'll see I actually addressed most of it already. I'm at a healthy weight for my age and I make decent money but I'm always trying to hit the gym and make more.

Back on the good news; I'm still in conversation with this girl. I asked for the date but am not sure if she agreed or not. Either she's being ambiguous or maybe English isn't her first language. Who knows.

I'll show you guys the conversation soon and get your thoughts.

But while we're on this topic ... I should point out that "drop the girls and work on yourself" is actually pretty bad advice that both Alex and John Anthony speak against. You should always be working on yourself regardless of whether your chasing girls or not. Even a married man with 3 kids should be working on himself, because continuous improvement is what gives life purpose and meaning.

The better advice would be "Keep working on yourself while trying to learn game at the same time". There are so many flaws with "drop the girls and work on yourself". Mainly because no one can define the "endpoint", you're saying to exit the game and focus on self-improvement but when is the work over and when can he "re-enter" the game?

For example, let's say a guy took your advice. He uninstalled Tinder and hit the gym. He got a new degree, started a business, and took up some hobbies. Now he's 6'2, muscular, makes six-figures, drives a Bugati, owns 3 houses and a yacht. Is he done "working on himself", or is there more work to do still? Who defines that? I doubt you're saying every guy needs to be a muscular, charismatic, billionaire before he can start using Tinder.

Even if he has followed your advice, all we're left with is a rich, hot, guy who has zero understanding of dating or how to get girls.

That's why, in addition to constantly improving myself, I'm still trying to use dating apps and learn this along as I go. "Leave and come back later, when you're ready" is not good advice because noone knows what "ready" is.

These are some solid responses, many thanks. Unfortunately I got impatient last night and decided to reply on my own before these posts came in. I said "I have a really nice garden...does that count?"

I know, it's a shitty response. She hasn't responded yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if my response was so dull that she disengaged.

To your other point: I appreciate the positive vibes here. I don't ever want to be some hopeless blackpill doomer, but I think there is some merit to be observed there. Think about it. It took me 1000+ swipes on Tinder just to get a handful of matches (5). Of those 5, 4 were obese. I sent openers anyway, just because, and still got no responses. That means even obese chicks have enough clout/attention on Tinder that they don't feel the need to respond to me. It was pure luck I matched with a cute, regular-looking girl, but even she probably has 100 other guys crowding her inbox. No matter how you spin it, it the conversion rate is terrible at 0.1%. Even overweight, "plane Jane" girls get attention on Tinder but only guys who put in serious work can maybe achieve a conversion of 10%

And this goes back to the many of the points Alex says in his videos, which align with the whole "redpill" school of thought. You should always be improving yoursef. Hit the gym, make money, dress sharp, get a haircut, etc. And of course keep practicing your text game, verbals, and cold approach. It's an ongoung, active, process that never stops. Some people make it work and others don't. I guess the reason so many guys in the manosphere are frustrated, and many of them quit, is because of the thought that the juice isn't worth the squeeze or that it isn't "fair". Like a "Why do I have to do so much shit just to have a chance at getting laid, when girls and guys who look like Chris Hemsworth can do it effortlessly". But that goes into a whole different discussion about victim mindset.

Sorry, kind of ranting here. My main action item for this post it when should I resurrect this conversation if she doesn't respond, and how should I do it?

I sent the response last night at 10pm and now it's 1pm the next day and nothing from her. Should I re-engage her with a "Don't think too hard"

You think she was reluctant about the one night stand? I got a different vibe ... she even said "I'm on birth control" as if she was readily volunteering the fact that she's available to fuck freely. Then again I am no expert on this subject so I could be wrong. I just want to improve my own text-game by analyzing other guys and helping when I can.

I found one that was reasonably priced and operates in my city, he also branded himself as a "Tinder Photographer" and not a generalist. Hoping I get some good results with that, because I'm not ready to drop $$$$$ on an absolute pro if the end result is still "lipstick on a pig". If you're ugly AF no amount of professional photos will save your ass.

I wish I could post my pics, but I could lose my job if I someone ever saw my face on a site that falls under "the manosphere". That's just the reality of corporate America.

But yeah, good to know I'm not the only that follows all of the PWF advice and still gets nothing. Makes me believe luck/looks really do play a part.

I did the professional photographer route too...still waiting for the pics to come back. Let's see.

I just don't understand how bald, accented, Indian PE is able to slay on Tinder. People say "you can make up for bad looks by excelling at other things" but he doesn't even have ripped shirtless photos, or photos showing off his yacht or mansion. It doesn't make sense.