I think you guys have misunderstood me, or maybe I didn't express myself correctly. Im not some give-up doomer. I'm just pointing out why you see many of them in the community and why many give up and withdraw. I was close to doing that myself. I agree with what you guys are saying and if you reread my post you'll see I actually addressed most of it already. I'm at a healthy weight for my age and I make decent money but I'm always trying to hit the gym and make more.

Back on the good news; I'm still in conversation with this girl. I asked for the date but am not sure if she agreed or not. Either she's being ambiguous or maybe English isn't her first language. Who knows.

I'll show you guys the conversation soon and get your thoughts.

But while we're on this topic ... I should point out that "drop the girls and work on yourself" is actually pretty bad advice that both Alex and John Anthony speak against. You should always be working on yourself regardless of whether your chasing girls or not. Even a married man with 3 kids should be working on himself, because continuous improvement is what gives life purpose and meaning.

The better advice would be "Keep working on yourself while trying to learn game at the same time". There are so many flaws with "drop the girls and work on yourself". Mainly because no one can define the "endpoint", you're saying to exit the game and focus on self-improvement but when is the work over and when can he "re-enter" the game?

For example, let's say a guy took your advice. He uninstalled Tinder and hit the gym. He got a new degree, started a business, and took up some hobbies. Now he's 6'2, muscular, makes six-figures, drives a Bugati, owns 3 houses and a yacht. Is he done "working on himself", or is there more work to do still? Who defines that? I doubt you're saying every guy needs to be a muscular, charismatic, billionaire before he can start using Tinder.

Even if he has followed your advice, all we're left with is a rich, hot, guy who has zero understanding of dating or how to get girls.

That's why, in addition to constantly improving myself, I'm still trying to use dating apps and learn this along as I go. "Leave and come back later, when you're ready" is not good advice because noone knows what "ready" is.