My first introduction into PUA world was The Game by Neil Strauss and the VH1 show “The Pickup Artist.” I had significant success in field but at one point got to a certain body count (not even that high) and had an overwhelming feeling that my soul was detaching from my body and I started to lose meaning in sex. I started asking myself “What number do I need to reach before I’m satisfied? That’s a weird thing to attach myself to a number body count, it felt so empty.
I thoroughly enjoyed playing the game and was quite excited by the witty things I would come up with on the spot. I took on Mystery’s style of dating strippers and practicing game at strip clubs. Perfect place to practice game where there is an abundance of hot women opening you all the time. Also the most advanced shit tests by the most professional flirters.
At some point, I decided to step back, fall in love, and get married to a woman my sister introduced me to. After about 3 years we divorced. Have a 4yo daughter now, and am conflicted about re-entering a world that sometimes gets to weird and sleezy territory.
I ended up here after downloading bumble a week ago and experienced that the world has changed so much. You used to meet girls first then text, now there are two great filters before even an in person meetup. Level 1 = dating app game, level 2 = text game, level 3 =date.
The videos are super informative and Alex certainly understands and explains dating dynamics well. After being in the relationship world for about 5 years, I’m super rusty so the videos are a life saver.
My question is: What do people think about the ethical implications of playing the game? I feel like I reached a point in my life where I have healthy self esteem, don’t like to lie or be deceptive, and think way too much about hurting another one with daddy issues.
Do I get really deep into the game and just go for threesomes for the rest of my life, which I was getting close to at one point and never achieved yet; enjoying a hedonistic life till I die with no one around (except my daughter) like the Uncle Wayne character from “Ghost of Girlfriends past? Or should I just learn enough text game and take another risk of a long term relationship just to end up back here even more behind in five years and older? I do remember often feeing immoral when I was active in the game.
To game or not to game- that is the question.
-Lukasz
Forget to task what's ur age
1 Post (+0), 7 Cmts (+1)
34, divorced with 50/50 custody of 4 yo
8 Posts (+15), 334 Cmts (+93)
Bro you're good. We're not doing anything bad, this is all consensual and it's just playing a game.
I'm 35, in the process of a divorce with 2 kids that i have on the weekend. Was married 10 years but cheated a few times.
Mainly used to do a lot of daygame, but i'm killing online dating.
My wife was #6, been separated for about 6 months and my body count is now close to 30 and rising.
I would say don't overthink it. Just study it, train, get better and practice and you'll be good. Your previous experience will come in handy.
The thing is if u need to get into game and maintain the relationship.u need to discuss the partner about threesomes shit.if u need to end relationship u can get to the game.and if u need only relationship stop game. Depends on what u want either to fuck or not
4 Posts (-1), 50 Cmts (+18)
I've only skimmed through The Game, but did watch the VH1 show because I had a friend who knew Alvaro (I'm from Miami too--funny how I've known of of a couple of people on reality shows... or porn sites). I've never really been a PUA, but the stuff I picked up did help a lot in college, and I would say college was a highlight for me.
I'm 38 and never married, but have had a quite a few LTRs since then, and am currently in an open one, but COVID (and time, in general, as you pointed out) has changed things a lot, and that's what lead me here. So I can relate.
I think being a family man is good--important even. One of my challenges this year was having a family member pass, and realizing that as my mother is going to need me to take care of her as she gets older (don't know why it didn't dawn on me when I was younger, but it feels like something not many people talk to you about). So I think that you having a daughter is great and that you should probably focus a lot (but not all) of your energy on being a good father to her.
But that said, life is your oyster. Do whatever you want. I think you're good at this point.
One of the problems with the Mystery Method is that his personal style was all about performance. Which is fine for him, I guess. But I think that's what leaves people with the impression that "game" involves lying or deception.
I like how Alex defines game: "communication skills, social skills, inner beliefs, etc." Which, even if you're good at, can always be improved. That said, there are more practical applications to game too. Things that anyone can learn from experience, but can get you ahead if you learn from others. For me, just getting the best use out of all these new apps (fucking algorithms!) and how calibrate my texting (I've NEVER been into texting before!) has helped a lot.
So, to me, "game" isn't about hedonism--there's no "ethical" implications. To me, this pursuit is about opportunity. Being able to open yourself up to experience so many great things with women, is priceless. And if one day, you're walking down the street, and an incredible woman walks past you, do you really want to miss that opportunity? And do you wanna waste time fumbling around trying to figure how to seize that opportunity yourself (and you could), or don't you think it would be better to use the Internet--one of humankind's greatest accomplishment--to learn and collaborate with others?
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Thank you that post is very helpful.
Yes, I already feel I’m a great father (I’m also a child psychologist that teaches parenting classes) and I have a very close bond with my daughter, that’s always a priority.
Such a cogent analysis of Mystery’s game being about performance, it seemed more about ego than connection when I watched him. Gotta give props to the legend.
So here are my ethical concerns especially as a mental health clinician:
1)If I’m seeing a girl that Is smoking hot but can already tell has some issues, and I already see this isn’t the one, and I communicate to her that we can only stay FWB, and she agrees like they all do but eventually catches feelings, and then do I eject because I’m now starting to feel shitty about it? Even if you openly communicate your intentions I still feel awful for someone who was hurt even though they shouldn’t have a reason to.
I guess if I was in your position where I would have to be a caretaker for a parent in midlife, that may be an advantage to be single and dedicate more time to caring for my mother. In clinical practice I have seen things like that deteriorate marriages.
4 Posts (-1), 50 Cmts (+18)
Well, seeing as Mystery's background is in being a stage magician, I always figured that "peacocking" and having "routines" was more about his personal style--one other's happened to have had success adopting. But ego too, I'm sure. A lot of people in this community (especially new ones) stake their ego on women. Even JMULV admits that his abusive childhood set him on an approval seek path.
To point 1: I think you can still have a mutually wonderful shared experience with someone who, as you say, has "issues". For one, they're human too, and like just about every other human: wants to fuck. But I've never come across that problem, personally. I wonder if that's because I've never had "intentions" to communicate? I don't approach with intentions. I guess my intentions are more like "You seem like you might be great. Let's see where this goes." And if we ever come to a point where we can't agree on where we want it to go, then that's that, and I've never really had someone be overly hurt. Also, even if they have "issues" when you meet, I don't see why you should assume that those things won't be resolved over the course of you knowing them.
2: I'm not versed in this at all. But I do know weird hippie people with unconventional family structures and lifestyles, who have children. Makes me wonder. At the end of the day, you probably know what's best for your daughter, and I'm sure you'll do the best you can. Whatever you decide on might be a challenge either way, but I don't equate challenges as negatives. You also mention morality again here and I'm not clear on how this a moral issue? Obviously, you want to optimize your daughters wellbeing, but is that a moral quandary, when it comes to dating, or just a practical one?
3: Sounds like you're being loss averse. I'm not sure if there's a completely sure fire way to predict how a girl will react to lay count, but either way, does it matter? If she's disgusted, or whatever, so what??? Personally, I don't keep count, and if I'm being honest, it's probably because I'm relieving myself of the responsibility of knowing-- but also, I lost my virginity when I was 15, so I've been sexually active for a long time now, man, hard to keep track! But anyway, I think Alex has a video on the subject, if that helps, and I believe he said you should be upfront about it.
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Oh also a third concern is: If I am in the game for a while and I do meet the one walking down the street but she is an innocent preschool teacher type, how do I tell her about my past if she asks? If it’s love can a girl handle higher body counts?