My first introduction into PUA world was The Game by Neil Strauss and the VH1 show “The Pickup Artist.” I had significant success in field but at one point got to a certain body count (not even that high) and had an overwhelming feeling that my soul was detaching from my body and I started to lose meaning in sex. I started asking myself “What number do I need to reach before I’m satisfied? That’s a weird thing to attach myself to a number body count, it felt so empty. I thoroughly enjoyed playing the game and was quite excited by the witty things I would come up with on the spot. I took on Mystery’s style of dating strippers and practicing game at strip clubs. Perfect place to practice game where there is an abundance of hot women opening you all the time. Also the most advanced shit tests by the most professional flirters. At some point, I decided to step back, fall in love, and get married to a woman my sister introduced me to. After about 3 years we divorced. Have a 4yo daughter now, and am conflicted about re-entering a world that sometimes gets to weird and sleezy territory. I ended up here after downloading bumble a week ago and experienced that the world has changed so much. You used to meet girls first then text, now there are two great filters before even an in person meetup. Level 1 = dating app game, level 2 = text game, level 3 =date. The videos are super informative and Alex certainly understands and explains dating dynamics well. After being in the relationship world for about 5 years, I’m super rusty so the videos are a life saver. My question is: What do people think about the ethical implications of playing the game? I feel like I reached a point in my life where I have healthy self esteem, don’t like to lie or be deceptive, and think way too much about hurting another one with daddy issues. Do I get really deep into the game and just go for threesomes for the rest of my life, which I was getting close to at one point and never achieved yet; enjoying a hedonistic life till I die with no one around (except my daughter) like the Uncle Wayne character from “Ghost of Girlfriends past? Or should I just learn enough text game and take another risk of a long term relationship just to end up back here even more behind in five years and older? I do remember often feeing immoral when I was active in the game. To game or not to game- that is the question. -Lukasz
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Well, seeing as Mystery's background is in being a stage magician, I always figured that "peacocking" and having "routines" was more about his personal style--one other's happened to have had success adopting. But ego too, I'm sure. A lot of people in this community (especially new ones) stake their ego on women. Even JMULV admits that his abusive childhood set him on an approval seek path.
To point 1: I think you can still have a mutually wonderful shared experience with someone who, as you say, has "issues". For one, they're human too, and like just about every other human: wants to fuck. But I've never come across that problem, personally. I wonder if that's because I've never had "intentions" to communicate? I don't approach with intentions. I guess my intentions are more like "You seem like you might be great. Let's see where this goes." And if we ever come to a point where we can't agree on where we want it to go, then that's that, and I've never really had someone be overly hurt. Also, even if they have "issues" when you meet, I don't see why you should assume that those things won't be resolved over the course of you knowing them.
2: I'm not versed in this at all. But I do know weird hippie people with unconventional family structures and lifestyles, who have children. Makes me wonder. At the end of the day, you probably know what's best for your daughter, and I'm sure you'll do the best you can. Whatever you decide on might be a challenge either way, but I don't equate challenges as negatives. You also mention morality again here and I'm not clear on how this a moral issue? Obviously, you want to optimize your daughters wellbeing, but is that a moral quandary, when it comes to dating, or just a practical one?
3: Sounds like you're being loss averse. I'm not sure if there's a completely sure fire way to predict how a girl will react to lay count, but either way, does it matter? If she's disgusted, or whatever, so what??? Personally, I don't keep count, and if I'm being honest, it's probably because I'm relieving myself of the responsibility of knowing-- but also, I lost my virginity when I was 15, so I've been sexually active for a long time now, man, hard to keep track! But anyway, I think Alex has a video on the subject, if that helps, and I believe he said you should be upfront about it.
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Thanks a lot, very well thought out and written. This is helping me feel better about getting back into the game.
When I was active in it I didn’t really have hesitations about LTMRs, and 90% of the time it want really an issue.
I agree that maybe I’m just being loss averse. And I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with the game. We all have to play it the way natural selection works if we want to propagate the species. So my rationalization has usually been:
We all have to play it so there is nothing inherently wrong with it.
Getting good at the game gives more opportunity, and there is nothing wrong with creating better opportunity.
Evolutionary psychology says that men are motivated to spread seed to the most possible so it doesn’t seem unnatural for a man to want to do that.
Way more women want a quick fuck or something casual more than they are willing to admit but can’t because of social conditioning,
Thanks a lot you are very helpful