PWF Main Group (Public Community)
Success storiesIke posted 3 months ago
Since joining PWF a couple of weeks ago, I understand (online) game a lot better. A lot of valuable content on here!
But I notice a small gap in practical application. The lay reports show a lot of good info, but it seems most of the time there is already pretty good response/investment from the start. In combination with the skills of the PWF men, it can feel like a big gap. Where we start as rookies and where they are already.
I think it would be very beneficial if the guys on here would share some stories about how they turned around their game. Some before and after text game screenshots, the mental aspect of it etc.
Now we just need YOU to break the ice and post YOUR succes story in this thread!
6 Suprising Lessons I learned as an Intermediate PWF studentAaron posted a year ago*
So, I've been a student of the Playing with Fire community for nearly a year now. I've been even more fortunate to also receive 1:1 coaching from some of the best guys in this community, including my mentor Indian PE and even on occasion Alex and David themselves.
In all that time, I've learned a LOT. When I discovered PWF, I had no idea what I was doing (very much a beginner). Now, I see somewhat consistent results (intermediate). I'm even able to help out fellow community members.
In this post, I wanted to share some of the top lessons I've learned during my time here. If you can internalize these lessons, you'll be able to see a huge and quick jump in the results of your online dating.
1. Double texts are often a death sentence.
This is one of the most common mistakes I see in the Mastermind, even with guys who have been in the community a long time. When I'm talking about double texts, by the way, I mean sending more than one text in short succession. Double texting 24-48 hours after receiving no response is a totally different strategy, one that can be effective when employed correctly.
I suspect there is one main reason why guys are so tempted to double text. After hitting 'send', guys start analyzing and worrying about the messages they sent. They do this to the point where they overthink it. And so they double text in an effort to recover in some fashion.
And yes, they may have sent a suboptimal text. But, the attempt to recover comes off as low value, lacking options with women (abundance), or otherwise super lame. And so these second texts end up hurting, rather than helping.
99% of the time it's better to be stuck with a single suboptimal message than it is to double text her.
So, the next time you're tempted to double text, don't! Leave your single message, and give her at least 24-48 hours to respond before you send another text.
2. Your texts don't always have to make perfect logical sense.
I'm not talking about ridiculous, gamey, or silly messages here. Instead, and similar to #1, I often find that guys way overanalyze messages, often worrying about ridiculous scenarios they've invented in their heads that are highly unlikely to unfold.
Keep in mind, men are the logical gender. We men say what we mean, and we mean what we say. Women are much more driven by emotions. For women, they communicate a lot more using subcommunication. In other words, the subtext of what you say matters much more than what you actually say.
As a specific example, one of Alex's most preferred replies to "How are you?" is, "Good, just finished a killer workout. Looking nice and jacked for our date".
This line is packed with value. First, it replies to her question. Second, it shows her value by saying that you workout. Third, it baits her with the idea of a date -- which she may hook onto.
But when I suggest this, I sometimes hear from guys in the community, "It's 1 PM, and I'm at work. I can't send that!" or "It's 12 AM, she obviously won't believe it."
A similar one is, "I'm awesome! Having a glass of wine on my romantic patio" (credit Indian PE). But a guy worries about this because "It's raining today" or "It's too cold to be on your patio".
This is where men's logic and tendency to overthink is to their detriment. Odds are, girls aren't going to say anything about this. You, as a man, focus on the logic of these statements. The girl focuses on the emotions she's feeling from all the value that's packed into it.
3. Calibrate your messaging, particularly the valuable things you display about yourself to the woman, based on the kind of girl she is.
With online dating, she will determine you to have some level of initial value to her. She bases this on your looks and what she's able to discern from your pictures and bio. Then, you spark further attraction in her by showing her that you are high value. You show value through what you communicate and tell about yourself.
Having "good text game" is core to this, but of course, learning text game is something that happens over time. The other part is telling and showing her areas of value from your life. This is sometimes referred to as "displaying higher value" or "DHVing".
One frequent mistake I see guys make is showing the same areas of value with every single woman. Instead, you need to think about what type of woman the girl is, based on her photos and bio.
Here are two archetypes of women to help solidify this concept this for you:
A hard-working professional woman who is career-oriented.
Good way to display value: Telling her about how you had a recent meeting with the CEO and board of directors of your company.
Bad way to display value: Telling her about all the parties you've been going to lately and how you've been staying out every night until 5 AM.
A college girl who's into music festivals and partying.
Good way to display value: Telling her about a DJ you dated and the crazy parties you are now able to get VIP access to.
Bad way to display value: Telling her about your career and ambitions.
4. You can build attraction (and more) over text.
An old mantra I used to hear from dating coaches was that you could never attract a girl over text messages. That texting was a mechanism for setting up dates and logistics, but nothing more.
Playing with Fire totally flipped this for me. I've seen Alex and David do crazy things over text messaging that shocked me. One amazing example of this is how you can trigger women to get what you want.
By subtly showing your value over texts, which includes the way you text her (again, "text game"), you can -- and will -- get women attracted to you. And from there, you can get her invested in you and even compliant with you.
5. Persistence is not the same as neediness.
One of the biggest things you hear as you study dating / seduction is to "never be needy." And yes, this is true -- once you come across as needy, a woman will immediately lose all attraction for you.
But, this mindset led to a lot of false limiting beliefs for me. Examples of things I believed included:
- Once a girl flaked on you for a date, you should stop pursuing her.
- If a girl stopped responding, you were chasing her and being needy if you kept trying to text her.
- If a girl wasn't showing interest, you were chasing her and being needy if you kept trying to text her.
Yet, Playing with Fire has shown that persistence is not the same as neediness. After all, women have a lot going on in their lives, too. Many already have one or more men in their lives in some fashion. Plus, every woman has lots of other guys messaging them online. Most of the time, you aren't a priority for them until you've had sex at least once or twice. This is why it's crucial to be persistent, because women can and will forget about you. Indeed, there are many love reports on this site showing how ridiculous persistence can turn into sex.
Since discovering PWF, I've had women say that the only reason they met was my persistence. I even had one compliment my persistence after we had sex!
Ok then, what's the difference between persistence and neediness? Well, it's a bit hard to explain.
It comes down to your mindset in pursuing the girl (because women are shockingly adept at reading what's actually on your mind).
Not Needy: When you're persisting to meet with a woman, but your messages and texting indicate you don't really care whether you actually meet (showing "outcome independence" and "abundance").
Needy: When you're pushing to text and meet with a woman, and it's clear you really care about meeting her (such as coming across butthurt, or even just more invested in the meetup than she is).
6. Identifying your sticking points and making a few tweaks can transform your results!
As I've said before, women are overrun with attention with online dating. Any decent looking woman in a decently sized city will have tons of options. So, it's important to not only stand out, but to avoid making basic mistakes.
The Free Playing with Fire eBook shares all of the introductory knowledge you need to nail down the fundamentals and stop making the worst mistakes. It's a great way to jumpstart your online dating results and start having sex with the women you desire.
And if you are ready to truly transform your results, the Full Playing with Fire Online Dating Blueprint is the most exhaustive guide to online dating out there. It contains 10 in-depth modules plus numerous bonus modules. Plus, it includes a month of free access to the Mastermind coaching platform. Men who have purchased the product have literally gone from being virgins to sleeping with dozens of beautiful women in a single year.
Bonus Lesson: Copying and pasting lines is not effective.
I see so many guys who just copy and paste lines that they see others use. Then when they post their full conversation, it either makes no sense or simply isn't congruent. You can read it and tell that it reads like multiple different guys are texting her!
Instead, the key is to learn the ideas behind the different canned messages you see used.
With some experience under my belt now, I start to see patterns in conversations that recur. Some of these patterns happen a lot (when she asks "How's your day going?"), and some happen less often.
But by understanding the ideas behind messages, you'll be in a strong position when you see a pattern repeat. You either use the canned line (if it makes sense), or you can use the concept from that line to develop your own that fits better.
So as you look at lines that Alex, David, Indian PE, and others use, ask yourself some questions:
- What was the girl communicating before he sent this line? (Again, women communicate much more subtly than men. So what she says may not be what she actually means. Try to understand the subtext of her message.)
- What things does this line communicate?
- Why does this line make sense here?
- What is this line meant to accomplish?
- What are the possible responses you could get to this line? How would you respond to each of those responses?
If you focus on breaking down the meaning of messages, rather than just copying and pasting, you'll be able to learn so much faster.
Ok I'm stumped. Help me with the next text guys...Joe posted 15 hours ago
ok, i admit i'm not the best texter (i'm willing to learn). but this girl from Amsterdam (she's in the US in my home town) is still with me for some reason. but she just sends one word responses. i don't want to lose this hottie, so any suggestions for the next text(s) would be great. thanks in advance.
What to say in this situation?curlay posted 20 hours ago
Had a few situations like this where the girl apologises after i drop the 'are you always this talkative' line. Tried number closing on a different one but no luck cus there wasnt much of a convo to start with.
What can i say to get the ball rolling in these situations?
This girl actually liked me and I feel liked I fucked it up.Robert posted 13 days ago
First of all, thank you PWF for your work. I only started watching recently but your videos have really helped fix my mistakes. Great stuff Alex.
Here is a recent convo with a girl I went out with last night. There are some insiders but basically she really seemed into me and I feel like I fucked it up trying to sexualize. Like my texts are kinda cringeworthy since she already expressed that she liked me last night and through text, so there was no reason to bring it up so soon. Normally I wouldn't but I tried to follow advice on here about escalating sexually through text. If I hadn't I think I'd be in a better position.
For a bit context:
- During the car ride home after our date she asked if I was dominant and if liked to manhandle. I answered "are you submissive or what?" and she told me she was just asking because no one had ever carried her like I did when we were making out (suggesting that it took her by surprise and she liked it).
- We are both in our early 20s. We're both back in our small town for the summer.
- She legit had to go back home because she's staying with her parents rn but in her text she seemed genuinely interested in meeting up again.
Could i say here swiped right for cake or is that too original?Written in the stars posted a day ago
Let ke know!
Text game for girls from your social circleJacob posted a day ago
I've pretty much internalised the PWF technique and works great for girls who I don't know at all. But when I run text game for
- Women I already know and match with them on Tinder
- Women I already have on SC / if from socialising, and I want to step it up to atleast sex
Advice on how to proceed with these women? I feel like there's more on the line, as if either of you say something silly then you risk getting exposed to all your friends.. these are the girls you have partied with and typically already have some memories with..
Ps Would make a good video as I'm sure I'm not the only guy with this issue when it comes to social circle girls!
lr texts stunner chick bumblelouis posted 9 days ago*
girl was model tier looks. 25 years old. on date she said she’d just got out of 3.5 year relationship and i was first online date she’d ever been on. met at beach. had a couple white claws. then had tacos. got a bottle of wine and went to my place. didn’t even finish our first glass. we kissed for like ten minutes. i went to go down on her. she said we’re not having sex. i asked if i could kiss her (pussy). she said no. so i stopped everything. i was like well let’s just hang out then. if you need more comfort i can wait until next time. but i’m to turned to just make out. then she climbed on top of me and started kissing me. a couple minutes later she was like i changed my mind about sex. it’s taken some work to integrate pwf style to be congruent to me. since i have shits been amazing. so thanks to alex.
something i realizes is i wasn’t making messages relevant to the girl. i started focusing more on the girl and viola.
bumble > tinderlouis posted a day ago
is anyone else feeling this way now? i used to do so much better on tinder. now it’s all bumble and hinge. like i may even delete tinder. i hate swiping. i think tinder is mostly good for the youngest girls. and i’m not having any luck with them. but i’m liking chicks in their mid to late twenties better than i thought i would.
Gir sending sexy pics, then full ghostStigthePig posted a day ago
I matched with a young girl the other day. I start some small talk, and she responds by blurting out " I want sex." . So I speed things up and get her snapchat. Then she proceeds to send titty pics, then pussy pics, then like 10 consequtive videoes of fingers in pussy,ass, squirting, begging for cock ++. I obviously respond with loads of dick pics and such (even though at work), I figure we will fuck when I finish work, but then she goes full ghost.
I know she lost interest cause she already came by herself, but was that whole display just full on validation? Is girls like that just a tease, or actually possible to fuck at some point?
Reopening help and critiqueThomas posted a day ago*
So started talking to this chick on bumble in May. Seemed to be working out. tried to pull for the date but she had a corona concern. Used the corona message and no response. Just reopened her last night. Her response to my last message was Ok.......werd. And then asked if I was dancing in the bed......Trying to get some ideas on how to progress this further for the meetup and critiques on the interaction.
Conversation re-engagement and soft negsTommy posted 8 days ago
I would like to know how to re-engage conversations. I haven't seen a chapter about this in the guide given here about how to really re-engage conversation. I'd like to have some a referral to it if I was wrong and there is something related to it.
another thing is that sometimes I feel like that the girl is being a bitter or gaming me and I feel like I should neg her back and from what I've seen on this guidebook here. the guy never gets shit from girls. what is your opinion about begging back or comebacks about girl's being too much cocky? I have believed that she should be "on the ground" and submissive and not trying to resist. I define anything aside from being submissive to me as defiance.
please don't prove me wrong. if you can just show me some examples of how you handle defiance from a girl or re-engage conversations, from cases when is yet not attracted and invested, not like when she's already into the guy like in the presented cases in the guidebook here.
Hookup- possible future girlDavid posted 5 days ago
Hooked up with a girl last night, she said she had a great time I haven’t texted her since. Should I send a post hook up sex. I see some coaches say wait a week before you text her but, I don’t wanna be dick and make her think that she was just a one night stand.
Sexy 26yr old Short & Curvy Latina LR (Lots of persistence)Erik posted 3 days ago*
At the time of this LR writing. My eyes are squinting from editing all the screenshots I took.
This LR definitely taught me a lot about how to be persistence in a non needy fashion
This was a cold approach I did when I saw this very short latina girl giving me a lot of positive body language signals. Strong eye contact, a lip bite, hair preening, exposing her jugular part of her neck, & fertility signaling, etc..
Was in a hurry, so I approached her & said “Hey sweetheart, I know you like what you’re looking at & what you’re thinking.” She smiled & giggled and I proceeded “Here’s my phone insert your number” she threw the “Do you have Snapchat or Instagram?” To which I replied “You girls & your childish Snapchat & Instagram shit” to which I honestly don’t have & think they’re lame & consume a lot of my time. She then said “Wow.. very bold, okay here you go hun”
After that I gave her a hug & knew it was on when it a “crotch to crotch” hug. Said “It was nice meeting you, have a great rest of your afternoon.” to her and when about my day... and the rest was through text obviously
She did turn out to be very submissive during sex, liked being tied up, choked, for me to spit on her face & into her mouth. I later found out after sex, when I tapped into her past trauma, opened her up to me & said she had “Daddy Issues” & an abusive ex boyfriend, drinking/smoking problems, schizophrenia, anxiety disorder, histrionic disorder, BPD & very suicidal, which are girls I know how to handle Mentally & Emotionally since I’ve overcame and dealt a lot with my own mental health illness & have experienced two BPD ex girlfriends in my lifetime. If you’re unaware of girls like this & “Dark Triad” traits & don’t know the signs they will make your life a living hell... STAY AWAY!!
Which is why for some reason, now I know why she was thinking & asking if I was a catfish? Wtf!? So I end up making her a video of myself & sending it to her. She did love to give me a lot of calls during the day which is a sign of “Fear of Abandonment”
Thanks Alex for the Teddy Bear meme I found on your profile & your PWF Dating Blueprint which I’ve read 9 times now. Definitely gives Amazing results in being persistent. There’s plenty more LR coming soon 🔥🔥
SA – Anyone sing up and paying?Joe posted 4 days ago
Anyone here pay the high price for SA? Looks like you cannot do anything free like with the others. But much more expensive as well. So wanted to know if it's worth it before i put up the cash. Also, not planning on any ppm either, but gaming the girls like with the other apps. Much appreciated!